Putting a plaza in place

Apologies to Palmers Green Action Team for failing to mention their involvement in this project. They have provided the following information:

"This is a project that was inspired by Better Streets pocket park in 2019 and then from there we (Palmers Green Action Team) proposed the idea of Devonshire Square to the council and have been consulting with them and Jan Kattien architects for over a year.

"The final pieces of the install are street furniture and then festoon lighting which will go in in November and then we will have an official opening."

Note too that the new public area is no longer referred to as a "plaza", which is what the council were calling it last November . The official name is Devonshire Square.

So we have a Square as well as a Triangle, while Southgate offers five-ways roundabout. Is Winchmore Hill even at the races?

Well done to the Action Team and Better Streets before that; this should be a really positive addition to the high street offer

Why does Karl Brown need to have a dig at Winchmore Hill when he doesn't know what the proposals are for improving the Green even further when it has been established as a dining out area for nearly three years and has been generating much needed income for local businesses and attracting visitors from outside the area. Don't see what the roundabout in Southgate has to do with anything either?

Neil, I would take your victims hat off and instead look at it through the jovial lens of a run of shapes; I almost went for a Halloween timed pentangle reference, but decided against. A GCHQ posting probably not for you. As for the Green, a splendid development. Have a word and Helen O who might recall the thanks she sent me for suggesting such a change of perspective for the area probably about a decade since, maybe before you moved to the area.

One of several new photographs on the Palmers Green Action Team Facebook page of people of all ages enjoying the as yet incomplete Devonshire Square in Green Lanes.

The accompanying text reads:

The install of Devonshire Square is almost complete and the festoon lighting will be introduced in November. We are so thrilled to see it being used already! Here’s a little more about the project:

Devonshire Square is the first public square in Palmers Green, designed by @jankatteinarch and funded by Enfield Council in consultation with Palmers Green Action Team. It’s a democratic space for everyone to use ? Currently it’s an 18 month pilot but we hope in time it will grow in popularity at which point the ground will be levelled and it will be made permanent.

The idea for DS came from the community and started with Better Streets in 2019 and their pocket park. It’s part of a borough wide strategy to invite people back to the high street; We know that a lively street scene is good for footfall, local businesses and makes the high street more resilient.

The structures, built by @buildingbloqs are street furniture and are for people to sit on, climb on and enjoy. By adding height it allows a better perspective once you’ve completed a dot to dot drawing on the ground ☺️ The art and poetry is all inspired by the work of local poet, Stevie Smith.

We plan to hold a Winter Market at Devonshire Square in December and we hope this will be the first of many outdoor events in this new community space.

Thank you for the update. Please can anyone tell me is there any public seating in the Plan? The designer couldnt point to any but does say you can sit on the stair steps. Is this really all the public seating there is here? Do all the chairs belong to the cafes? Would really like to know where members of the public can freely sit in this public space. Thanks.

wasn't this where there was going to be public seating? a lovely parklet providing seating, dry cover and attractive planting, then a load of people kicked off (principally anti-LTN folk) and it got moved to Southgate High Street?

Anyone know if there is any public seating in this public place? According to the Council, it was the local cafe that refused to allow the £35k parklet here as if would ruin their business which is why I’m keen to know if again they have refused to accept any public seating here?

Hogwash. Do we have some Council minutes etc to support that? As that's clearly a smokescreen to pretend the Devonshire parklet was not cancelled and moved to Southgate because of a noisy, vociferous and occasionally abusive (typical) campaign emanating from the anti LTN cohort.

As I understand the light green seating shared by the cafes is Council-funded. The mobile Parklet was always meant to be moved around the borough. With the confirmation of the wonderful low traffic neighbourhood the Council decided to create a permanent square. The good news is we get two parklets in the borough and the cafes are delighted with the extra custom. Everyone wins

Thank you. But how are people to know they can sit there? Last week, tables in the raised platform area had little vase or salt/pepper on the tables, ie indicating they belonged to the cafe so no indication it was public space. Perhaps some public notices letting people know seating is free would help. So we can sit while cafes are open and after that, say, a nice summer’s evening, is the public space open to us then to sit or the chairs will be taken away? Why is seating in this public space in the gift of two cafes? How do the other cafes in the area feel about that I wonder.

It is costing £100,000 which as well as the £35,000 spent on the rejected parklet, is a lot of money.

Ann, where's your evidence for this claim? If you can't back it up, then please publicly state that you can't instead of leaving an inaccuracy uncorrected. Why on earth would having an area safe for pedestrians ruin a business, especially a cafe?

My understanding is that local businesses were very taken by the one-day parklet experiment in 2018 and were keen on the idea of something permanent.

Enfield Council’s email to me 26 Oct 21 extract below. Do you remember July last yr you announced parklet was coming but then suddenly it was installed in Southgate. It seems Olive Garden thought it would interfere with business -and wanted time for its outside space to evolve. How is this news to you guys though? Is what the Council sent me not the ‘real’ story? Very confused now.

That's interesting, I was unaware of that, and I don't know why the council couldn't have made that more widely available. So you've taken that perfectly reasonable point made by cafe and council (and I assume that the cafe has to pay the council for a table licence) and totally distorted it to fit your agenda:

There is absolutely no evidence there to back up your claim that "the local cafe refused to allow the parklet" or that they said "it would ruin their business". Do you have any evidence? If not, please apologise for misleading people.

Perhaps you could ask Darren Edgar to do the same re his posts too before coming so quickly back to me. It seems odd that those so closely involved seemed to know nothing about the official explanation the Council gave me. Perhaps PG Community could ask the Council what happened to the consultation it supposedly did with businesses and the survey it ran last year for the community as it seems quite late in the day to withdraw the parklet. Following the Council's letter to me, it is my belief that the cafe owner must not have wanted the parklet in place as the owner wanted their business to evolve. Which begs the question why could the two not happen alongside each other -- remember it was intended as a trial and could be moved around, etc? The implication from the wording of the Council letter that the cafe owner must have felt that having a public seating area beside it would somehow adversely affect its business. If the owner felt it would enhance the business, then there would be no need to mention it. and the parklet would have gone ahead. The only explanation the Council letter provides for its sudden cancellation of the parklet installation is that it was in discussions with the cafe owner. So I apologise for presenting as fact what is my opinion based on my reading of the Council letter. I look forward to a response to my earlier post about the seating and how it will be clear a. that it is public and free to use and b. what happens when the cafes are closed. Will any additional seating be provided?

My understanding is that the current set-up is an trial and could change depending on feedback. The current installation is a joint venture between the wonderful Palmers Green Action Team, a local community group and the Council. My assumption would be that anyone can sit on the chairs without obligation to buy from the juxtaposed cafes - but you'll get a definitive answer from the Council directly (or via your local Ward councillors).

The Council taking something into consideration (sensibly) is very different to the claim made that the reason the Parklet didn't happen where intended was because the cafe "refused" to allow it. That is pure smokescreening as the bulk of the objection actually came from the anti LTN community, of which Ann is a leading voice, mainly it seemed due to who happened to live on the street....

1. It isn't an "official explanation" as it is not in any Council published document. It is just a personal reply to you.
2. You have then chosen to misinterpret it and misrepresent it for your gain, it appears.

The £35k spent on the Parklet was centrally funded too, was it not, not Enfield Council coffers? Another classic false argument that emanates from those that simply object to anything all the time.

In reponse to the points made above, Palmers Green Action Team have provided the following information:

"In terms of the seating, the street furniture was designed by Jan Kattein, built by Building Bloqs and commissioned by Enfield Council and is for people to sit on, climb on and enjoy. This is a democratic space for everyone.

"In terms of the decision about the parklet, we were not involved with this project and don’t know why it was moved to Southgate. From what we understand, the cafe seating has been supplied by Enfield Council and is used by the two adjacent cafes.

"It’s impoirtant to relay that Devonshire Square is an 18 month pilot, after which time, if it’s proven to be popular and used by the community, then the ground will be levelled and tweaks will likely be made. If more seating is needed then that could well be something that could happen if made permanent."

Great. Thank you. PG Action team are absolute champions. Positive minded local heroes trying to make a real difference.

Thank you to PGAG who do a great job in bringing improvements to Palmers Green. I want to be clear though what the Council will or will not allow us residents to do in the democratic space:

1. Can non-customers sit on the Council-funded chairs and tables outside the cafes? Can we for example buy some treats from the other local cafes (they need support too) or kids might want a MacDonalds and use these chairs? It appears from the answers so far that we cannot. If we can then please put up notices inviting us to sit there.

If our only option is to sit on the play equipment then the space is sadly lacking and I would hope that the Council would address it urgently to avoid it being seen as a Council funded scheme to support two local cafes only, and not a democratic space as such.

Better Streets for Enfield and the Council herald this Devonshire Place/Plaza/Square as a ‘win’ for the Fox Lane LTN and the Council is pouring in money, first the rejected £35,000 parklet and now another £100,000 at least for this. If this is to be a success it needs to be a welcoming public space for all to sit and enjoy.

Why are you so negative about everything all the time? You were no doubt quite happy about the cancelled parklet when rallying your anti LTN troops to protest it's placement. And you don't seem to care that it isn't always LBE money being poured into these things.

You could just relax. Let the "plaza" trial happen. Go an enjoy a coffee there and not get in a flap about whether the seating is particularly designated. I've seen nothing to suggest it is anyway. Just like the parklet would have worked.

Why not ask the Council?

Who is responsible for it at the Council? It’s strange that our community groups haven’t been given an answer to this fairly basic question. The Council should be more transparent for £100k+ of public money. They were sadly very quick to tell me that funding is unlikely in the short term when I asked about putting a pedestrian refuge on Bourne Hill as now often unsafe to cross. Isnt that a shame.

Maybe because nobody else is making such a big issue of this, Ann? Go ask yourself if it is important to you. You obviously have a direct line in to someone given your earlier post re the parklet relocation.

And how is Bourne Hill now unsafe to cross?! There's two zebra crossings in the stretch from The Woodman to Southgate Circus. There's probably a good reason why an agitator's loaded request was ignored/turned down.......

Can I try and sweep up a few strands up here.
If there’s a wish to ask the Council something, approach your councilor. That’s their role.
Who and where to sit? Well, the UK doesn’t do, “you can do” notices, that’s all too Napoleonic – as well as inevitably enormously complex. But you do find, “don’t” notices. I’m not aware of any “don’t” notices in the new plaza. I have seen individuals going as far as to take the tap water and nearby glasses from the chiller in Le Grand Jour to consume at a table, with no associated purchase.
From a reasonableness perspective I would suggest avoiding the “historic” tables next to both cafes, instead using the new central area. If the seat-police do intervene then all will be clear, but I doubt such a scenario.
Let it evolve: the sunny weekend a few weeks back shows this is going to be popular and far better for the high street than the hundreds of cars that once used it for the briefest of short cuts. It could well expand to be eg the home of the GLBA Shopping Festival, location for an acoustic set for an hour on a Saturday, Hazelwood Christmas choir and and and. Time will tell.
And rather than trailing up with a McDonalds, so bypassing their own seats and ones in the nearby Triangle, I’d strongly recommend a freshly cooked gozleme from the Olive. Indeed, in recently buying three I was rewarded with four free baklavas. Top result. A lot of experience suggests that both cafes are kind outlets, adding positively to the public realm and deserve our support.
Looking at The Bourne / Bourne Hill, this has always been a difficult cross. Crossing north from Caversham Avenue into a blind bend was particularly dangerous and it took me about three discussions with the council about 20 years back to firstly outline the position, have it accepted as an issue and finally welcome the use of some end of year remaining budget to install the two pedestrian refuges both side of Caversham. All done with no animosity, anger towards the council or external “noise” but instead a “work with” approach while accepting the council’s own constraints. Some of the existing refugees are car-centric rather than suitable for wheelies and come with adverse pavement access. It would be a relatively small budget fix and you may succeed with an equivalent approach.
Much progress in PG has been individuals quietly working away, without seeking to sow division, to improve the overfall spatial framework in such ways. Much also carries on; you will have most recently read of the cinema project, now in its 5th year and I know subject to substantive volumes of effort. There are others, some known, some not.
In Yoda’s wise words, anger tends not to lead to a positive outcome. I’d commend it.

I guess the Council can only answer if asked and suggest emailing and if you're not happy with response then talk to one of your councillors (who were elected to represent you). And same with the crossing refuges - chat with your councillors. I always try and remember the people working in councils are human - and are more likely to help people who work with them rather than appearing to be 'against'.

As is clear from the photo above, the event that inaugurated PG's new Devonshire Square on Saturday was a great success, despite a nasty cold wind - but it was a Winter market after all!

Congratulations are due to the Palmers Green Action Team for bringing in an interesting mix of local traders for the Winter Market and to Enfield Council for persisting in the project for a new public space in the face of criticism from some of the usual quarters.

Any doubts about the transformation powers of a road becoming a plaza will surely be eroded by a visit to the newly pedestrianised Strand outside Somerset House and fronting and surrounding St Mary Le Strand. Not so long ago this was a racetrack, with vehicle streams both sides of the church, proving an awful, noisy, place to cross. Now we have an oasis. Hard landscaping is complete and once the plants grow it will be fantastic. In countless years of passing I had never noticed the magnolias framing the church.



Tables, early signs of food and an installation of roughly 50 seats forming the colours and shades of the rainbow to the north side are building interest and life. Fortunately as yet no Yodas nor amplified buskers. Outside of the immediate impact and benefit I would see this as a jigsaw piece helping form a (tourist) route from the South Bank, through Somerset House and ultimately on to Covent Garden. A bit grander than our own Devonshire Square but we do have more cafes, probably more than Covent Garden itself.