pgc all green working and signpost with lettering new colour 2
pgc all green working and signpost with lettering new colour 2
facebook icon twitter icon

Share share on facebook share on twitter share on Bluesky

intimate theatre palmers green sept 2018

St Monica's Large Hall aka the Intimate Theatre

There may soon be one fewer historic building in Palmers Green following news this week of plans to demolish the Intimate Theatre and replace it with a new parish centre and flats.

There have long been rumours that the Intimate’s days were numbered. St Monica’s, who own the site, first made a successful planning application to replace the theatre (also known as the Large Hall) with a single storey parish centre in 1992.

This week’s parish newsletter announces plans to demolish it and to also sell the current parish centre on Cannon Hill – which is a Grade 2 listed Regency villa.

As you may be aware, the Large Hall and Parish Centre at Cannon House require major investment. Even after such investment they remain, in design, a theatre and private residence. Existing expenditure on maintaining these building is costly and will continue to be in the future. The buildings are not energy-efficient and some areas cannot be accessed by those with impaired mobility. To meet the present and envisaged future needs of the parish, it is proposed to build a new Parish Centre, one that will be a legacy for future generations.

david bowie at the intimate theatre palmers green

David Bowie appeared in Pierrot in Turquoise for four nights in the late 1960s

Of course, the Intimate already has a legacy, and was successfully nominated for Enfield Council’s Local Heritage List two years ago. The site of Sir John Clements’ famous theatre company, the first play ever to have been broadcast live on television was beamed from the Intimate and it is one of the last surviving local theatres in London. Those who have trodden the boards include Richard Attenborough (making his stage debut), Irene Handl, Anna Wing, Nicholas Parsons, Roger Moore, Arthur Lowe, Bill Owen, John Inman, Dad’s Army writer Jimmy Perry and his wife Gilda, Tony Blackburn, Stephen Berkoff, Davy Graham, David Bowie, The Wurzels, Joe Brown, George Melly, Tommy Trinder, Hinge and Bracket, and, in panto, Bill Pertwee, Ruth Madoc, and John Noakes.  Many of those have of course passed now. And it seems that so too will our old Intimate.

St Monica’s are holding a parish meeting about the plans on 18 September at 7.30. At the Intimate Theatre.

This article was originally published on Palmers Green - Jewel in the North and in republished with permission.

Log in to comment
Darren Edgar posted a reply
13 Sep 2018 09:11
When was the last time this was used as a proper actual theatre? Understand not for years. Redundant as a theatre and not fit for purpose as a community space/parish hall.

Therefore best of recycled for better use, helping satisfying much needed housing demand for young people, with the funds extracted to build a brand new fit for purpose time-resilient space. Win-win.
Sue Beard posted a reply
13 Sep 2018 09:54
I do have some sympathy with that view David and with St Monica ‘s .

but there is a bit of me that also thinks we are in danger od’developing’ away everything that has any historical interest or culture and leaving pg just another identikit suburb.

I don’t think every oldish building is precious by any means but It would be good to try to protect what is unusual and distinct and has meaning for us through it’s story. I know that the new building will take on meaning for the congregation but there will be another bit of the past gone probably to be replaced by something more functional than attractive . Some sadness at least about that is in order ...

And,come on, Sid James...! Stewpot...! Clive Dunn...!
Karl Brown posted a reply
13 Sep 2018 17:24
I guess if you close it as a theatre, rename it as a “hall”, and then rip out the seats its chances of continuing as a theatre are reduced. Then make it a real uphill challenge to book it for performing arts events and its little wonder it sat underutilised.
For current demand, The Park Theatre shows what can be done, as surely will the revamped Alexander Place Theatre, while as Basil says, the small theatre in Friern Barnet ticks along nicely. The Intimate could have been a performing art centre / base of real excellence for PG, indeed for a big swathe of Enfield. Imagine, cinema, theatre, music, eats, dance and more. I thinks it’s a colossal lost opportunity, but doubtless very financially positive for some.
This absolutely huge, world leading, part of the UK economy is being attacked (hard) at school curriculum level and with moves like this, further up the line too.
I don’t think we’re getting the mix of “other” to balance the necessary focus on housing. All those people in houses need things to do outside of their front doors, while our leading creative sector needs the space to breathe. Amen
PGC Webmaster posted a reply
19 Sep 2018 17:31


PGC member Garry Humphreys has started an online petition to save the Intimate. To read and sign visit you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-the-intimate-theatre-palmers-green .

In the Why is this Important? section of the petition Garry writes:

The Enfield Local Heritage List describes the building as having landmark status, rarity value, historical association and social value in the local community.

The Theatre was the home of the John Clements Theatre company, and the site of the first play ever to have been broadcast live on television. By the end of the 1960s it had become the last repertory theatre surviving in London. The theatre still plays host to a range of dramatic and operatic societies, and local events.

Many famous people appeared on stage here, including Richard Attenborough (in his stage debut), Irene Handl, Anna Wing, Nicholas Parsons, Roger Moore, Arthur Lowe, Bill Owen, John Inman, Dad’s Army writer Jimmy Perry and his wife Gilda, Tony Blackburn, Stephen Berkoff, Davy Graham, David Bowie, The Wurzels, Joe Brown, George Melly, Tommy Trinder, Hinge and Bracket, and, in panto, Bill Pertwee, Ruth Madoc and John Noakes. Local resident Stevie Smith attended regularly. John Clements was knighted for his contribution to film and stage - Bristol University holds an archive in his memory. This is one of the last local theatres left in London.

The two-storey frontage is in red brick with stone quoins and window surrounds and seating for an audience of up to 406 people.

While the parish clearly has plans to redevelop, if they see the local and national opposition this will create they may look to revise plans to include some theatre usage.

To make this happen, please sign this petition now! Thank you!

PGC Webmaster posted a reply
19 Sep 2018 17:38
Dave Thomas, one of the main organisers of St Harmonica's Blues Club, attended yesterday's meeting at the Intimate and has provided the following account.

I arrived later than intended at around 7.50 when Father Mehail Lowry was presenting the case and the plans. The meeting consisted of Parish Members, St Monica’s Players and ‘others’.

There is a pretty large body of support amongst the parish members for the plans to develop a new Parish Centre on the site of the Intimate Theatre using proceeds from the sale of the current Parish Centre at Cannon House, 6 Canon Hill N14. The new centre would prioritise the needs of the parish and have increased office space and meeting rooms next door to the church as well as flats which can provide some revenue stream and which could be used to house refugee families and retired priests amongst others. In the process the aim is not to have time without either building. What is not clear is the time scale involved with obtaining the necessary planning permission or the sale of Cannon House. The suggestion was that planning could take around 12 months and that selling Cannon House would be undertaken ‘fairly soon’. We heard from the headteacher that a local authority application to extend St Monica’s Primary School into 3 forms of entry by building upon the car park adjacent to the school and Cannon House was rejected because of a tree preservation order on the trees on the site. The expansion of the school is no longer required but the tree preservation order, along with Cannon House being a grade 2 listed building which sits in a conservation area, does question its appeal to potential developers. In the meantime teachers, staff & visitors can still park their cars.

As this project takes shape users of the Parish Centre, such as Centre Stage School of Performing Arts and St Harmonica’s Blues Club, cannot plan to use the centre beyond Christmas when it may be that bookings for a 3 month block may be taken; the users will be informed as and when the situation becomes clearer.

Meanwhile there will be another consultative meeting at the Intimate Theatre on Tuesday 2nd October, when St Monica’s Players have asked to make a presentation about the value and heritage of the Intimate as a local theatre.
Neil Littman posted a reply
20 Sep 2018 13:57
My view for what it is worth, is that the present building is really ugly and completely out of date inside as a theatre. I have been to events there when it was used for community meetings (perfectly OK for that) and for a dance event (felt like going back to a much earlier era). I thought the acoustics were dreadful. I also have a friend who acted on stage there several times and didn't think it was as good as most theatres. My solution would be to demolish it and replace with a modern arts centre, incorporating a main venue, a 'studio' one and a concert venue for the blues club and contain all under one roof. There are many venues like this in the UK. Several of which I have played at in various bands. They normally include a cafe and have a range of events for all ages from children to adults. The Jacksons Lane community centre is a good example of this kind of place though they don't promote music and the one at the Willesden Library complex which does have live music. It would also give the area of Southgate, Palmers Green and Winchmore Hill a much more central focus and could be a great success and put us on the map so to speak. It is all very fragmented at the moment. I do understand it is down to costs but there must be a way to develop this site while selling off the other and it would cost less than the cycle lanes and be a lot more popular!
Maire Harris posted a reply
21 Sep 2018 11:41
I understand the Church owns the site which makes this development very different to a Council-owned property where the needs of the whole community could be considered. St Monica's is addressing its needs for a functional parish centre so I don't think talk of a modern arts centre(nice as that would be) will come into the equation.
PGC Webmaster posted a reply
26 Sep 2018 00:24
A report in the trade paper The Stage quotes Steven Berkoff as saying

To lose the Intimate, Palmers Green, where I have also played as a young man, would be more than just a shame

.

Nicholas Parsons :

It would be so sad to see the Intimate Theatre disappear as many artists learned their trade there, perfecting their craft, not only in acting but also how ‘to walk a stage’, as they say.


The full report is at https://www.thestage.co.uk/news/2018/steven-berkoff-backs-calls-save-north-londons-intimate-theatre-closure
PGC Webmaster posted a reply
26 Sep 2018 22:48
On Palmers Green Jewel in the North Sue Beard has taken exactly the same source as me but has written it up much better than me - with a great headline: "Just a minute, says Nicholas Parsons".

http://www.palmersgreenn13.com/2018/09/26/intimate-demolition-plans-just-a-minute-says-nicholas-parsons/

As of 10.30pm on Wednesday, 2,269 people had signed Garry Humphreys' online petition, which is a huge number for a local issue in only one week.

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-the-intimate-theatre-palmers-green
Darren Edgar posted a reply
27 Sep 2018 15:16
Park Theatre is fantastic. Have been to a couple of productions there.

But, key difference, it's a BESPOKE building. Designed to perfectly achieve it's purpose and provide key modern requirements such as DDA compliance/mobility access.

Intimate is none of the above. Would love to see Park Theatre type place in PG but Monica's will NEVER be it as it is not fit for purpose, no matter how misty eyed we all get.

Understand/sympathise with Sue's "developing away" comment, but this needs to be balanced with fitness for purpose and ongoing viability/sustainability.
PGC Webmaster posted a reply
01 Oct 2018 14:01


St Monica's church will be holding a meeting at 7.30 this evening (1st October) at the Intimate which is expected to include more information about the proposed new parish centre.

The theatrical group St Monica's Players (SMP) are among those most affected by the decision of St Monica's church to demolish the Intimate Theatre where they perform and also sell the buildling on Cannon Hill where they rehearse.

On their website www.smptheatre.co.uk SMP have set up a page which describes their interactions with the church and the background to the current plans.

SMP's assessment is that their staging of Snow White in January 2019 may well be the last theatrical production to take place at the Intimate since it appears that the church is determined to go ahead with demolition.

SMP have drawn up their own counter proposals:


  • As a group we are opposed to the sale of Cannon House and demolition of the Intimate Theatre.

  • We stand to lose both our rehearsal venues, the venue to perform our annual pantomime and our storage space for set and costumes.

  • We believe that by refurbishing and developing the current buildings and with good management the needs of the parish groups could be met and prioritised, avoiding demolition of such a valuable asset to the community.

  • There are people willing to volunteer to help with management of the building and with the refurbishment process. But it would take the will of the church to allow that to happen.

  • A petition has been set up to save the Intimate Theatre from demolition which can be found here: https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-the-intimate-theatre-palmers-green

  • A facebook group has also been set up for people to share their memories of their time there: www.facebook.com/groups/332720484202395/

  • With some good lighting and a bit of creativity we know how nice the venue can look.


The SMP website has photos of the Intimate transformed as a venue for a wedding reception.

The complete SMP page about the Intimate is at www.smptheatre.co.uk/intimate-theatre-redevelopment-smps-future/
Karl Brown posted a reply
01 Oct 2018 14:29
I read that the UK’s creative industries are worth more to the economy (£) than the combined total from oil, gas, life sciences, automotive and aeronautics. There’s a non-trivial risk that we take such income (and linked pleasure) for granted. Is it so hard to visualise a performing arts hub in such a dense, wealthy part of arguably the world leading city and undoubtedly the world’s leading theatrical city?
Darren Edgar posted a reply
02 Oct 2018 14:46
Counter proposals are thin on detail to say they least, can barely even be called counter proposals! Haven't seen mention of how development & refurb could be funded (the classic) and this overly simple approach says nothing about how such would actually deliver a modern practical functional theatre that meets modern D&A standards and wouldn't need to be re-done in a few years anyway....
PGC Webmaster posted a reply
03 Oct 2018 23:11
Following the second meeting of parishioners on 1st October, St Monica's Players have updated their page about the future of the Intimate, adding the following:

– On the 1st of October a second meeting was held by Colin Smart of Kyle Smart Associates, the architect appointed by St Monica’s, to show the original concept ideas to the parish. A short introduction was given by Father Mehall and by Paolo Camoletto (Diocesan Chief Operating Officer).
– The new parish centre contained a café bar/foyer, a large hall which could be split with a dividing acoustic screen, a new kitchen, a breakout area upstairs and some meeting rooms and offices on a second level above the main entrance. The plans also contained a 3 storey block of flats at the rear of the new development which would run along the current line of housing on Stonard Road.
– The initial ideas were given a mixed reception, some felt the building lacked its own identity or link to the church. Some felt the centre should be physically joined to the church so parishioners could move directly from the church into the new parish centre
– Questions were raised including some on the financial aspects of the project but as this was a concept meeting and those areas would be addressed later. A question was asked about parking for the flats, it was confirmed the flats will have no additional parking.
– On the 3rd of October the latest parish newsletters were published online. The 23rd September edition carried a statement that was similar to those already published online but now included mention of the construction flats.




(Source: http://www.smptheatre.co.uk/intimate-theatre-redevelopment-smps-future/)
Karl Brown posted a reply
04 Oct 2018 14:18
With what looks to be 6 associated flats, housing need will not be the driver of this proposal, although any resulting income may well be a key factor in the financial case. The new London Plan, currently with the Inspector, raises Enfield’s existing London Plan housing target from 798 to an annual 1876 over the 10 years from 2019/20. That’s a 135% increase, and so looks immense. However, Enfield’s current Local Plan already targets 2048 units pa. The new Local Plan (Core Strategy) is apparently close to publishing so we will see how this figure changes, but against that background its unlikely housing need is an arguable driver for this particular change.
Darren Edgar posted a reply
04 Oct 2018 14:34
Not the driver, but the cheque book!
PGC Webmaster posted a reply
25 Oct 2018 00:11


The theatrical group St Monica's Players have drawn up a set of alternative proposals for the future of the local Catholic church's hall and and parish centre. They envisage retention of both the hall (the Intimate Theatre) and the current parish centre (Cannon House).

http://www.smptheatre.co.uk/the-intimate-theatre-our-proposals/
Karl Brown posted a reply
25 Oct 2018 16:11
Very well done to St Monica Players and just how refreshing it is to see such a proactive attempt to save this local asset and then some. There’s only high level detail available across the 30 odd slides but I can envisage an even wider range of uses than outlined with decent management: we have local dance groups, local choirs, local orchestras and music groupings, local artists, no farmers market anymore, nor craft markets and on and on.
I have a few links which may be useful and know of one or two ideas running in the background which may be possible to leverage to mutual advantage should SMP wish. I’d have no problem with a week’s worth or so of performances at the end of Augusts linking itself to and being a new, extended part of the Palmers Green Festival for instance. And I’m sure there’s a whole lot more.
Darren Edgar posted a reply
26 Oct 2018 09:44
Fair play for trying, the SMP team have done a good job with the resources they have, although having reviewed I don't know how they can genuinely say it is fully costed and deliverable.

Not sure I buy into the conerns w.r.t parking and the existing nearby development. Council planners want more residential space and less parking. I've bought into much larger developments in Finsbury Park and Clissold Park, both of which had no parking whatsoever and an absolute preclusion on being able to apply for neighborhood residents parking permits. Didn't harm popularity at all.
Fred Jackson posted a reply
30 Oct 2018 10:02
David Eden wrote:

Not the driver, but the cheque book!


Yes, indeed!

Up And Down
Basil Clarke posted a reply
14 Nov 2018 22:22
Garry Humphrey's petition to save the Intimate is still gathering votes by the hour or possibly even by the minute - five more votes in the past half hour, bringing the total so far to 3,358. Click here to go to the petition.

At the end of the report that I wrote yesterday about St Harmonica's blues club leaving the St Monica's parish centre after nine years, I included some information about the alternative concept for the Intimate proposed by St Monica's Players:

At this month's Winchmore Hill ward forum Warren McWilliams of St Monica's Players described the alternative concept developed by the well known local theatrical group. Their proposals would, according to Warren, retain the present Large Hall (the church's designation for the theatre) while bringing it up to date for use as both parish centre and theatre. Instead of building a small number of flats for retired priests on the site of the Intimate, which would exacerbate car parking problems in Stonard Road, Cannon House could be converted into a larger number of flats, which would overlook the garden and have ample car parking. However, the church management had declined to consider the alternative concept.


It's worth going through the short slideshow on the Players' website, which you can find at this link. It describes the theatre's significance for local history, the pros and cons of the present set-up, and a modernised Intimate that the Players say could meet the church's requirements.

At the Winchmore Hill ward forum Warren McWilliams explained that SMP can't afford the increased costs of hiring the Dugdale or the Millfield Theatre. So who knows where they will be performing in future years? The same goes for Acorn Theatre and the London Pantomimers.

This is a continuation of the loss of larger clubs and shows that were once held in PG. The blues club was originally set up in the Palmers Green station buffet, then moved up the road to Cannon Hill and is now moving further away from us, to Southgate town centre. They were beaten to the first Friday slot at the Southgate Club by the comedy club that used to be in Palmers Green, at the Fox - another largish venue that we've lsot. There are still live music venues in PG - thanks to enterprising and community-spirited proprieters - but they only have room for one or two performers at a time.

A smartened up Intimate might attract more theatrical companies - touring groups that find the Dugdale and Millfield a bit to expensive - and help resuscitate our high street. I definitely think that St Monica's church should take more pride in the Intimate's history and its place in our community - after all, churches have always had an important community function - and look seriously at the alternatives to demolition.
Maire Harris posted a reply
16 Nov 2018 13:45
I would be as sad as anyone else to see the demise of the Intimate theatre, however I don't think the SMP proposal shows much understanding of the needs of retired priests. Retired priests still need to say Mass daily and be involved in other Church activities, so to suggest that Cannon House would be a suitable location for retirement flats is flawed. Proximity to the Church is necessary. Regarding difficulties with parking, priests retire at quite an elderly age, so this may not be an issue.
PGC Webmaster posted a reply
23 Nov 2018 20:13


Geoff Bowden, author of Intimate Memories: The History of the Intimate Theatre, Palmers Green, has written a brief history of the theatre for the St Monica's Players website, with some excellent photographs of the original features in the interior.

Geoff concludes "Hopefully this important Palmers Green building can be saved – it certainly deserves to survive."

http://www.smptheatre.co.uk/the-intimate-theatre-a-brief-history-from-geoff-bowden/

Find us on Facebook

Follow us on Twitter

Clicky