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london oktoberfest broomfield park october 2022

A website advertising the London Oktoberfest in Broomfield Park has been online for some months, though tickets are not yet on sale

Over three days in October up to 8000 people from all over London are due to be flocking to Palmers Green, attracted by an opportunity to "loosen up their lederhosen" and enjoy three days of bratwurst, oompah bands and axe throwing, all washed down with German beer served by dirndl-clad waitresses.

The occasion? An “authentic German beer festival” held on the sports field in Broomfield Park and organised by Hertfordshire-based Barbican Events Ltd (a company set up only last year and with no apparent connection with the celebrated arts centre in the City of London).

Well, you might ask, what’s wrong with that? Broomfield Park is by now well established as a venue for all sorts of events and to date there have been few if any problems.

But how well does the “London Oktoberfest” fit into the established pattern of events in Broomfield Park? Will it bring disruption and a threat to public order to the centre of Palmers Green? And what does it tell us about Enfield Council’s commitment to a “partnership approach” to events in the park, as promised after 2018’s “4 Not 24” campaign, that they gave the green light to this event more than three months ago without consulting the local community?

2000 at a sitting

map showing proposed location of oktoberfest tents in broomfield park

The Oktoberfest is due to be held in a large tent on the sports field in the south-east corner of Broomfield Park

The London Oktoberfest is due to be held between 21st and 23rd October. Each of the four sessions held over the three days will welcome a maximum of 2000 revellers, seated at long tables in a huge tent (twice the size of the one used by Zippos's circus) pitched on the sports field at the north east corner of the park.

For each session the organisers predict that 800 people will arrive by train, 400 will be dropped off by taxi or car, 200 will come by tube (Arnos Grove or Bounds Green) and 100 will use buses.

Very different from the events that we’re used to

Only 400 attendees at each session – one in five - are expected to live near enough to the park to come on foot. That alone makes the Oktoberfest very different from the locally focussed not-for-profit festivals and other events in that we’re used to, which have done so much to enrich our cultural life and bring the local community together.

This month’s Palmers Green Food Festival, just to take one example, had the dual objective of promoting excellent local food producers while raising money and visibility for Cooking Champions, a not-for-profit dedicated to teaching proper cooking skills and helping tackle the food poverty crisis.

What is there to worry about?

However, there’s no law that states that all events have to be aimed at some good cause, and this is one way for the council to make up for the drastic cutbacks in funding from central government over the last decade or so.

And isn’t this just a bit of fun to brighten up what haven’t been the most enjoyable couple of years? The council’s Safety Advisory Group are satisfied that Barbican Events have “suitable and sufficient measures in place to deliver a safe event”. So what is there to worry about?

However, Friends of Broomfield Park (FoBP), the organisers of most events held in the park in recent years, beg to differ.

friends of broomfield park logo

Friends of Broomfield Park have published the objections that they will be sending to the council once the licence for the Oktoberfest is submitted

FoBP secretary David Williamson says that the Friends will be objecting to the licence application for the event, citing a number of serious concerns, including likely problems with dispersal of attendees at closing time:

“Over the past couple of years FoBP have run music events with audiences of up to 400 people and have found that the difficulties we face are in direct proportion to the amount of alcohol consumed. After the shows people have spilled out onto Aldermans Hill. Even using professional security and traffic management staff we've found that it takes up to 45 minutes to clear road and pavement congestion.

“This much larger event will magnify this problem four or five times, even without considering the effects of alcohol on many of the attendees. And people making for the trains - not very frequent even when they're not cancelled - will overwhelm the capacity of the narrow pavement outside the station."

A potential threat to FoBP’s popular events?

The Friends also worry that if any problems occur this could affect their ability to continue running their popular events in the park. Their not-for-profit events raise funds to improve the park and benefit our local community. By contrast, the Oktoberfest, with a huge number of attendees from across London and a focus on drinking, is entirely profit-driven and very probably will lead to complaints from neighbours about noise and other anti-social behaviour:

“Having built up community support for FoBP events and the existing programme of fairgrounds and circus, we don't want to see this lost because of one ill judged experiment.”

In their submission the Friends will point out that experience with similar events in other places does not augur well. After problems with Oktoberfests, both Colchester and Glasgow refused applications for the event to return the following year. A Police Scotland report referred to disorderly and aggressive festivalgoers who “pose a threat to pedestrians and a significant burden on the surrounding streets”.

A juggernaught superspreader event?

Also concerned about the event is local resident Steve Quinn, who in a Facebook post warns of another risk - spreading Covid-19 - and comments that this "authentic German" event might not go down so well in Germany itself:

Campaign to stop this Horror show, a juggernaut tent-bound festival, from taking place on an annual basis. Even the Germans would be horrified by this event, still officially bound to wear face masks on all public transport due to a massive increase of Covid outbreaks. What on earth are Enfield Council doing to the community of Palmers Green and Enfield borough?

What about consultation?

No doubt that there will be mixed views about Oktoberfest - some will hate the idea, others love it. But I'm sure that both sides of that argument will agree that the council should be consulting about holding a big event in our local park. And consultation isn't just a question of for or against. It's an opportunity to improve proposals, because local people will think of things that didn't occur to council officers who live somewhere else.

Back in 2018 the council agreed that a funfair could be held in Broomfield Park over a period of 24 days, including some evening sessions. They didn't consult about this, but when people living close to the park heard about it, they set up a campaign called 4 Not 24 and kicked up such a fuss that in the end the council and the funfair proprietor agreed that the fair should be on for only four days. The 4 Not 24 organisers and Friends of Broomfield Park held meetings with the council and reached agreement on a future "partnership approach" to events in the park, starting with informal discussions well in advance of an event. This is obviously all the more important when the event in question is on a different scale and of a different type than previously held in Broomfield Park.

So what became of the partnership approach? While it appears that the council gave the green light to Barbican Events back in April, it’s only recently that local people have learnt about the Oktoberfest. A few residents have seen a letter from the council’s head of parks dated 12th July informing them that Barbican Events would be applying for a full premises licence for regulated entertainment and for the sale of alcohol. Those who've tried to submit objections have been informed that they can't do so yet, as the licence application has not yet been formally submitted. Once the application has been submitted, residents will be able to object to the granting of a licence, but only on certain narrow grounds specified by the Licensing Act 2003 - which is as it shouldl be, because the act is designed to deal with specific issues that can arise when certain types of entertainment and the sale of alcohol are involved.

But these licensing questions are only one aspect of holding a big event in our local park which has the potential to lead to congestion on roads, pavements, buses and our pathetically infrequent train service. Does it not occur to the council that the people who live and work in Palmers Green might have views or suggestions that should be considered?

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Neil Littman posted a reply
28 Jul 2022 07:37
I think this is all about the council wanting to make money without proper consideration for local issues and the concerns raised by the Friends of Broomfield Park are extremely valid. Personally I don't think the park is a suitable venue for this type of event and it would be better for it to take place somewhere else such as Alexandra Palace. Think it quite telling that the council left the sending of notification to local residents so late. After all, what could go wrong?
Hugh F posted a reply
28 Jul 2022 09:15
They seem to be running a surprising advertising campaign for London. The top half of their https://thelondonoktoberfest.com website homepage is a video-loop, which, I think I'm right in saying includes 100% white faces. Takes me straight back to the 1970s.









Bill Linton posted a reply
28 Jul 2022 12:11
Mixing large quantities of beer with axe-throwing - what could possibly go wrong?
Karl Brown posted a reply
28 Jul 2022 15:06
As a relatively local resident I’ve just received the event notification letter, now dated 25th July. Having led exactly the same Premises License application for the PG Festival a few years back – SAG oversight, responsibility for the event, including security and nearby traffic etc etc – and further noting PGF was noticeably bigger in attendees and utilized park area then this beerfest - it’s surely noteworthy that application did not require such door-dropped warnings, or warnings that personal addresses would be made public on objection, or a promise of more letters to include FAQ’s and such. Presumably a family entertainment event with optional alcohol is deemed far less risky than a beer event with entertainment add-ons. Probably more appropriate for a family park in a London suburb too.

There are many potential downsides but before agreeing such an event I would certainly expect the Council’s due diligence to include a requirement of it being supported by a company with adequate resources and in particular a successful track record in hosting such events. That this is a company apparently set up only last year should set some alarm bells ringing.

A few things jump out on first reading of the letter to residents:

The event requires a successful license application AND Council permission. As with PGF this Council permission is a separate approval process, and, if successful, runs to many pages of must do’s.

Park users will continue to have access during the events. That’s the children’s playground right next door to the big beer tent.

“Pedestrian attendees will access / egress the park via Aldermans Hill entrance”. I had assumed ALL attendees would be pedestrian but perhaps not. If this refers to the small gate opposite the old Londis, as the accompanying photo implies, then 2000 people trying to exit at pretty much the same time is a danger of scale. SAG really should not approve that without solid, managed, stacking / queuing processes.

It should be possible to obtain the FULL event management plan as presented to SAG and which will presumably form a formal part of the License.

400 arriving by taxi suggests perhaps 150-200 taxis. I’m not sure there are so many available but either way it’s a lot of drop offs – and then an equivalent collection from Aldermans Hill opposite the shops. (With inevitable bunching near the gate you will note from the map.) That’s certainly not a risk I would have ever put forward as part of PGF planning, because there is a relatively narrow pavement and much day-to-day traffic, even before the alcohol influence is introduced. Form an orderly queue for the next taxi away; go against the outcoming tide to get back to the toilets, and such?

But 100 driving – that’s coming in a car to beer sessions which are between 6 and 7 hours long. That’s asking for trouble.
PGC Webmaster posted a reply
28 Jul 2022 15:59
Bill Linton wrote (message 6522) :

Mixing large quantities of beer with axe-throwing - what could possibly go wrong?


I've known pub darts players who swore that the more beer they drank, the more accurate they were at throwing the darts, and the easier they could subtract numbers to keep the score and calculate what they need to throw to win the game. At least that's what they said...
Penny Austin posted a reply
28 Jul 2022 18:53
Karl Brown wrote (message 6523) :

It should be possible to obtain the FULL event management plan as presented to SAG and which will presumably form a formal part of the License.


Karl Brown, I have requested under the Freedom of Information Act, a copy of the Events Plan. It was refused by Enfield Council on the grounds that "We are withholding this information under Section 43(2) of the Freedom of Information Act. The reason for this is that releasing it would, or would be likely to prejudice the commercial interests of any person (including the public authority holding it). In our view, disclosure of any documentation regarding the Oktoberfest event would be likely to weaken both the organiser’s and the Council’s bargaining position in the market place." I have asked Enfield Council to review this but won't hold my breath.
Karl Brown posted a reply
29 Jul 2022 08:37
Penny, it seems a strange answer on two counts: firstly, it implies LBE are a party to the event; and secondly, that management of an event for public safety reasons has commercial considerations. Maybe clarify the former and focus your request only on those matters relating to event management as it applies public safety outside of the tent / ticket access area.
If the EMP is not (to be?) part of the Premises License then its not clear how LBE could prosecute it, whereas if it is to be part of the PL, as I’d anticipate, then it seems entirely reasonable to be able to consider all the PL, so including the EMP, before being able to decide whether to object.
“Council’s bargaining position in the marketplace”, sounds like other councils were bidding for this beerfest and / or LBE has its eyes on more.
Philip Sheffield posted a reply
30 Jul 2022 10:55
I think it is atrocious that the council has agreed to this without proper consultation . I'm sure lack of consultation is a phrase I have heard before! Personally I will be opposing the grant of an alcohol licence as that is our only legal avenue to object. The Friends of Broomfield Park are rightfully disappointed with the process.
PGC Webmaster posted a reply
03 Aug 2022 20:03


Friends of Broomfield Park have sent the following message to everyone on their email distribution list:

NOT OK

FoBP does not support the proposal to bring a giant beer tent seating 2000 people to the park in October. https://thelondonoktoberfest.com.

We believe that the scale and its alcohol-driven nature presents high risks to the Palmers Green and is likely to create major damage to the park.

Four sittings over an October weekend will see 8000 people spilling out in Palmers Green after a boozefest.

Where drink is involved, the police recognise that behaviour can ‘escalate into aggressive, violent or lewd behaviour, such as intimidation or verbal abuse of passers-by, fighting or urinating in public. All of which are offences.’

We are very angry with Enfield Council at allowing this proposal to proceed to the licensing stage without any public consultation.

Read the FoBP objections here https://bit.ly/3Bob5nP

You may have other concerns....

Send your personal representations to making sure that you refer to the licensing objectives:
• the prevention of crime and disorder:
• public safety:
• the prevention of public nuisance:
• the protection of children from harm
and write to your local councillors to say what you think:

https://bit.ly/3zF3MHl
PGC Webmaster posted a reply
03 Aug 2022 20:13
One of the Arnos Grove ward councillors, Paul Pratt, has arranged a meeting with residents to discuss the Oktoberfest event.



As your Councillors in Arnos Grove, we have received a number of emails and phone calls objecting to the Oktoberfest event. This has been approved without consultation with local residents which is unacceptable.

Oktoberfest is without a license to sell alcohol in Broomfield Park.

Adrian and I fully intend on objecting to their application which must be submitted prior to the 24th August. To ensure your views are properly represented, we will be holding a Residents Meeting at the Civic Centre on Thursday 11th August at 7pm.

In order to attend, please email This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. using the subject title 'Oktoberfest Residents Meeting'. Please include your name and residential address.

This meeting is open only to residents of Arnos Grove ward and chairs of residents' and community groups in neighbouring wards (please email Cllr Pratt and let him know which group you represent and what your position in it is).
PGC Webmaster posted a reply
03 Aug 2022 20:49


This is how the row over the Oktoberfest has been reported in Enfield Dispatch.

https://enfielddispatch.co.uk/palmers-green-residents-say-nein-to-german-beer-festival
Darren Edgar posted a reply
04 Aug 2022 09:12
Whilst the Council has again consulted poorly, feels a bit like Merkur where they just tried to brush it under the carpet, the hyperbole on here is absolutely staggering.

Out of interest, of those complaining, anyone under 40??
Darren Edgar posted a reply
08 Aug 2022 15:46
Council have also now confirmed this event is being rejected. Organisers were set a list of conditions to satisfy and haven't therefore permission is being withdrawn. Good result for the fun police.
Neil Littman posted a reply
08 Aug 2022 16:38
Looks like Enfield Council are asking for the application to be withdrawn.
Basil Clarke posted a reply
08 Aug 2022 18:40
Darren Edgar wrote (message 6534) :

Whilst the Council has again consulted poorly, feels a bit like Merkur where they just tried to brush it under the carpet, the hyperbole on here is absolutely staggering.

Out of interest, of those complaining, anyone under 40??


While I disagree with Darren's view that objections to this particular event are greatly exaggerated (well, I would do, wouldn't I ? - I'm 40 + 31 years old), I think his point about people's ages is a good one, and not just on Palmers Green Community. Older people are over represented on residents' associations and other "civic sector" groups - which is inevitable, because younger people have their hands full looking after kids and trying to earn a living, or if they're not yet at that stage they're busy with their social lives. But it's obviously important to think about how things impact on them, and on kids too, as they're the people who'll be around in the future living with the consequences of decisions made now.

I sympathise with the view that people of my generation, the baby boomers, are in many ways guilty of denying younger people the things that we had. We grew up at a time when kids were free to roam without being constantly chaperoned, at school we weren't under such pressure to get A grades, then we enjoyed completely free university and college education, which we finished at a time when there were plenty of jobs. A much higher proportion of jobs at that time paid enough to actually build up savings. Rents were very low compared to now, and when we were in our late 20s or early 30s we could afford to get on the housing market. As for food banks, they would have been unimaginable.

Over the decades, government policies have helped take away many of these opportunities for generations that came after us. And who are the people who've been electing those governments? Us, of course.

I haven't looked into this, but I bet if you look at the age profiles of people responding to various government and council consultations, you'll find that they're skewed towards older people, when it's younger people, and especially those who are now children, who'll have to live with the consequences of us looking after our own immediate interests - polluted air, polluted rivers, road danger and noise, and above all, the climate catastrophe that is already starting to happen.
PGC Webmaster posted a reply
08 Aug 2022 18:54
Darren Edgar wrote (message 6535) :

Council have also now confirmed this event is being rejected. Organisers were set a list of conditions to satisfy and haven't therefore permission is being withdrawn.


Unless you've seen something that I haven't, this isn't quite right. As reported in Enfield Dispatch , the council has asked the organisers to withdraw their application and Palmers Green councillor Chris James has said she's "confident" that it won't happen even if the organisers don't withdraw.

I'd started writing my own report when the Dispatch pipped me to the post (I'm still doing some checking before publishing it). I haven't seen anything about a list of conditions that the organisers can't satisfy. My information suggests that the council gave the go-ahead months ago, but have now changed their mind because of complaints.

Correction: Looking again at Chris James' wording, I think that Darren's summary above is fine - though it's unclear whether the council are actually able at this late stage to "withdraw permission". See my new report at https://www.pgweb.uk/planning-all-subjects/pg-town-centre-improvements/3416-councillor-i-am-confident-that-oktoberfest-will-not-be-going-ahead.
Nicola Scott posted a reply
11 Aug 2022 07:27
Whilst I agree that it is worth looking at age related attitudes and objections in this case I don't think this does create undue influence. What is proposed is an event that is likely to overwhelme facilities. Also worth pointing out that a demographic whose park use could suffer badly are the under 12s and their playground. An absent voice on this.
The older demographic are not uniformly fun police. Support for the skate park proposal, for example, is not confined to the young.
Darren Edgar posted a reply
11 Aug 2022 09:04
Support for the skate park may not be confined to the young, but opposition is certainly confined to the old.

As for this event, it is not an evening do? Under 12s aren't playing on the swings at 9pm (I take my 2 year old there often but never after 5pm...). The event is aimed at 18-40, I'd say, and those aren't the voices of opposition. Whilst this is another example of poor Enfield Council planning & consultation, the event looked to be great fun and I'd already started inviting friends down to it.

The issue with consultation though, and the over-representation of certain demographics, is unlike YouGov that are statistical experts that properly sort, rank and weight their data, inevitably any basic local government consultation will get over-run by old people complaining against something as that's what's seen to be the purpose of consultation. Silent voices of support won't get heard.
Darren Edgar posted a reply
11 Aug 2022 09:05
Basil Clarke wrote (message 6537) :

Darren Edgar wrote (message 6534) :

Whilst the Council has again consulted poorly, feels a bit like Merkur where they just tried to brush it under the carpet, the hyperbole on here is absolutely staggering.

Out of interest, of those complaining, anyone under 40??


Thank you. Much better articulated than me.
While I disagree with Darren's view that objections to this particular event are greatly exaggerated (well, I would do, wouldn't I ? - I'm 40 + 31 years old), I think his point about people's ages is a good one, and not just on Palmers Green Community. Older people are over represented on residents' associations and other "civic sector" groups - which is inevitable, because younger people have their hands full looking after kids and trying to earn a living, or if they're not yet at that stage they're busy with their social lives. But it's obviously important to think about how things impact on them, and on kids too, as they're the people who'll be around in the future living with the consequences of decisions made now.

I sympathise with the view that people of my generation, the baby boomers, are in many ways guilty of denying younger people the things that we had. We grew up at a time when kids were free to roam without being constantly chaperoned, at school we weren't under such pressure to get A grades, then we enjoyed completely free university and college education, which we finished at a time when there were plenty of jobs. A much higher proportion of jobs at that time paid enough to actually build up savings. Rents were very low compared to now, and when we were in our late 20s or early 30s we could afford to get on the housing market. As for food banks, they would have been unimaginable.

Over the decades, government policies have helped take away many of these opportunities for generations that came after us. And who are the people who've been electing those governments? Us, of course.

I haven't looked into this, but I bet if you look at the age profiles of people responding to various government and council consultations, you'll find that they're skewed towards older people, when it's younger people, and especially those who are now children, who'll have to live with the consequences of us looking after our own immediate interests - polluted air, polluted rivers, road danger and noise, and above all, the climate catastrophe that is already starting to happen.

Geoffrey Kemball-Cook posted a reply
11 Aug 2022 09:17
First a disclaimer: I do not live in Palmers Green and would be unaffected by any "disorder" or ASB resulting from Oktoberfest. So "obvs" anything I say can be discounted on that basis.
However (you sensed that coming) after long cogitation about the OktoberFest, I think it is a shame to dismiss it out of hand - as an idea. This is completely separate from whether it is/would have been organised properly with appropriate security, loos, extra transport &c. Although largely brilliantly maintained by dedicated teams of volunteers, Broomfield Park remains a public park and it should always be a positive notion to arrange large-scale events there - such as the Palmers Green Festival or the funfairs. Opening up the Park as a leisure venue to a large number of people who may never have visited it before leads to at least the possibility of more involvement in its care.
Naturally if an event like OktoberFest were held and it proved highly troublesome (however judged), there will be a pile-in from those who campaigned against it, but in the real world sometimes things have to be given a chance. It is only by trying something that the actual results, positive and negative, can be assessed (rather than imagined), and it is essential for future improvements on such events that the actual problems can then be understood - and ameliorated.
There is also something generally to be said for encouraging large gatherings intended for fairly uncomplicated enjoyment in our public spaces. I think here of the Ally Pally Fireworks or London-held music festivals. All generate short-term inconvenience for locals but in general the locality benefits - or so I would contend.
Neil Littman posted a reply
11 Aug 2022 12:14
Re the comments about age profiles – that is an interesting issue. I think it is a given that most people (there are exceptions such as young councillors) only take an interest in local affairs due to having more time, different responsibilities etc. when they are above a certain age. I didn't have any involvement in anything like that until I moved to Enfield at the age of 59. But another factor, is whether it is the opinion of residents that influences these decisions or it is about the target audience for the event as they could be both and the same. According to the latest stats the average age of people in Enfield is 39.3 yrs. My guess is that many of those who want to attend are under 40. Trouble is,nobody has the time to do a survey of the under 40's in the borough to find out what they think but based simply on the council's track record with large scale events (such as those at Trent Park) I wouldn't touch the Oktoberfest with a bargepole.
Colin Younger posted a reply
11 Aug 2022 12:24
Darren,
You may not have read the license application (now withdrawn) It was for two weekends a year, Fridays 1500-2230, Saturdays 1100-2230, Sundays 1200-2100. So a clear clash with us of the childrens' playground.
Karl Brown posted a reply
11 Aug 2022 16:38
There’s a general comparison of sorts ( #6546 ) of Broomfield Park’s use for the PG Festival (and other family events in large public spaces) and the beerfest.
Looking specifically at the PGF, one is a volunteer run, non-profit, family friendly extravaganza, set up by this community for this community, with free access to all, built up over time, which sets up and puts away all infrastructure within the same day - with no park damage - and can table an excellent track record (and risk plan). The other charges for entry, is not available to a large segment of the population, is self-evidently profit driven and seeks to bus non-PG residents into a family park basically to get bladdered.
Chalk and cheese and a bit of horses for courses in my mind.

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