Forum topic: 2018 timetables consultation: Govia drop plan to improve Sunday services
2018 timetables consultation: Govia drop plan to improve Sunday services
Basil Clarke
02 Dec 2017 19:28 #3395
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Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR) have launched the third and final phase of their consultations over new timetables to be introduced in May 2018. The latest proposals will come as a disappointment for passengers using Palmers Green and other stations on the Hertford Loop, as the planned increase from two to four trains an hour on Sundays is no longer being offered. The online survey form mainly asks questions that are of little relevance to people using trains for weekend leisure purposes.
While phase two of the consultation related to weekday trains, the third phase sees GTR consulting about weekend timetables. I've summarised their proposals for the Hertford Loop in the box below.
Proposed weekend services on the Hertford Loop
Saturdays
On Saturdays the service would be similar to the planned new weekend offpeak service, ie for Palmers Green six trains an hour. There would be four all-stations trains an hour (though only two of them would stop at Bayford and Crews Hill) and two semi-fast trains, not stopping at Bayford, Crews Hill, Grange Park, Bowes Park, Hornsey and Harringay.
GN4.1 Stevenage to Moorgate via Hertford North
- Stevenage, Watton-at-Stone, Hertford North, Cuffley, Gordon Hill, Enfield Chase, Winchmore Hill, Palmers Green, Alexandra Palace, Finsbury Park, Drayton Park, Highbury & Islington, Essex Road, Old Street and Moorgate.
- Proposed frequency: 2 trains per hour (every 30 minutes)
GN4.2 Hertford North to Moorgate
- Hertford North, Bayford*, Cuffley, Crews Hill*, Gordon Hill, Enfield Chase, Grange Park, Winchmore Hill, Palmers Green, Bowes Park, Alexandra Palace, Hornsey, Harringay, Finsbury Park, Drayton Park, Highbury & Islington, Essex Road, Old Street and Moorgate.
- Proposed frequency: 4 trains an hour, every 12-18 minutes (but only 2 trains an hour would serve Bayford and Crews Hill)
Sundays
The service would be the same as now - two trains an hour stopping at all stations.
GN4.1 Stevenage to Moorgate via Hertford North
- Stevenage, Watton-at-Stone, Hertford North, Bayford, Cuffley, Crews Hill, Gordon Hill, Enfield Chase, Grange Park, Winchmore Hill, Palmers Green, Bowes Park, Alexandra Palace, Hornsey, Harringay, Finsbury Park, Drayton Park, Highbury & Islington, Essex Road, Old Street and Moorgate.
- Proposed frequency: 2 trains per hour (every 30 minutes)
In their initial consultation document issued in 2016 GTR stated that they were proposing to double the Sunday service to 4 trains per hour.
What the 2016 consultation said
A short report on the phase 1 consultation outcomes was published in June 2017, incorporating some Emerging Recommendations. One of the recommendations was to implement "Great Northern Metro frequency improvements throughout the day on Welwyn Garden City and Hertford North routes". Now, without justifying it or even mentioning it, GTR have dropped the decision to improve the frequency of Sunday services on the Hertford Loop.
Two trains an hour is not the "true metro service" that we were promised in 2016, if that is taken to mean a service that runs often enough for people to go along to the station without first consulting a timetable. And a high probability of finding a seat outside the peak commuting times (as GTR themselves say in their promotional video, "You can't squeeze a quart into a pint pot").
Unfortunately (or perhaps by design) the online questionnaire asks questions which are essentially irrelevant for most weekend passengers, who may not make regular journeys on a Sunday, but would greatly benefit from a turn up and go Metro service;
- How has your journey been affected?
- Is your new journey a lot more convenient/slightly more convenient/not much different/slightly less convenient/a lot less convenient?
- What impact would the proposed changes have on your weekend routine?
There is nothing to ask whether or not you are happy with the proposals or have any alternative suggestions, apart from the final question: "Have you any other feedback?"
Consultation Links
The Hertford Loop services are only a small element of the GTR timetable consultation, which covers services branded Thameslink, Great Northern, Southern and Gatwick Express and a geographical area stretching from Bedfordshire to the south coast.
- Here comes the future (consultation home page, with links to documents and proposed full timetables)
- Phase 1 consultation document (2016)
- GTR 2018 Timetable Consultation – Results (phase one)
- Phase 3 weekends consultation document
- Respond to the consultation using the online questionnaire (it is also possible to respond by email or post)
The deadline for responses is noon on 20 December 2017
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2018 timetables consultation: Govia drop plan to improve Sunday services
Andrew Stedman
07 Dec 2017 09:02 #3414
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2018 timetables consultation: Govia drop plan to improve Sunday services
Darren Edgar
12 Dec 2017 14:27 #3421
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If trains aren't standing room only, they aren't overcrowded and there isn't demonstrable need for more services.
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2018 timetables consultation: Govia drop plan to improve Sunday services
John Phillips
14 Dec 2017 11:11 #3429
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I am not surprised at Govia reneging on their promise. It's typical of their attitude to their customers. The tragedy is that the line was not handed over to The Overground like the Chingford line which is now vastly improved.
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2018 timetables consultation: Govia drop plan to improve Sunday services
Darren Edgar
14 Dec 2017 13:35 #3431
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2018 timetables consultation: Govia drop plan to improve Sunday services
Basil Clarke
14 Dec 2017 16:48 #3432
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presumably it wasn't handed over because it's not a solely london suburban line, goes right out to farthest north hertfordshire.
TfL already run services to Shenfield and Cheshunt, and the Elizabeth Line will go all the way to Reading. Not sure how that compares with Stevenage in terms of distance from the GLA boundary, but Reading is well outside London.
At one time it looked as if services might well be transferred, but then there was a reshuffle in the Department for Transport and Chris Grayling became SoS. He wrote to Boris Johnson saying that he couldn't permit a transfer to TfL because there was a risk that a Labour Mayor might be elected.
This letter even led to a Conservative MP, whose constituents would have benefited from a TfL takeover, demanding that Grayling be sacked. Unfortunately, he's still there.
For more information see www.pgweb.uk/forum/public-transport/604-tfl-suburban-rail-proposal-hits-the-buffers#2487 and www.londonreconnections.com/2017/overgrounded-how-londons-dream-of-rail-devolution-died/
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2018 timetables consultation: Govia drop plan to improve Sunday services
Darren Edgar
15 Dec 2017 10:31 #3433
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Lizzy line is a fairly unique exception, it's not comparable as a line serving a terminal station, however Reading to Paddington is the same distance as Letchworth to Moorgate, if looking a little more like for like.
Remember that letter, wasn't sure what CG was worrying about in particular, we've got a London Mayor now and his transport strategy is so limp wristed it wouldn't make much difference if TfL ran a outer-suburban line as far as I can see. Biggest problem and disruption remains Trade Union action which Khan is an ineffective dealing with as Boris was.
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2018 timetables consultation: Govia drop plan to improve Sunday services
Karl Brown
15 Dec 2017 16:36 #3435
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And only yesterday a mid-day train was cancelled due to a “lack of a driver” as i sat at Highbury. Six trains an hour next year looks like some stretch.
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