Forum topic: Found in the Town Hall: the "Palmers Scream"
Found in the Town Hall: the "Palmers Scream"
Martin Jenkins
16 Apr 2015 10:37 #1160
- Martin Jenkins
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The reference in Chaucer is from the Canterbury Tales:
“And whoso fyndeth hym out of swich blame,
They wol come up […]”
It’s a little hard to tell in the Middle English, but whoso is a quantified expression, like whoever, that is syntactically singular, but then is paired to the syntactically plural they.
The website:
http://englishbibles.blogspot.co.uk/2006/09/singular-they-in-english-bibles.html
has a full list of singular usage in the KJV, Tyndale, Geneva and other English bibles.
P.S. My academic friend has just got back to me. I will edit her reply and will post it here later today!
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Found in the Town Hall: the "Palmers Scream"
Basil Clarke
16 Apr 2015 19:12 #1162
- Basil Clarke
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The reference in Chaucer is from the Canterbury Tales:
“And whoso fyndeth hym out of swich blame,
They wol come up […]”
It’s a little hard to tell in the Middle English, but whoso is a quantified expression, like whoever, that is syntactically singular, but then is paired to the syntactically plural they.
Yes, the -eth ending shows that "whoso" is definitely singular.
Another interesting point is that "they", "them", "their" etc arrived in English during the Middle English period as imports from Scandinavian languages. The Old English plural pronouns were insufficiently distinguishable from some singular forms - they all began with "h", if I remember correctly - so the Scandinavian forms were used instead. But I think that Chaucer himself uses the old forms sometimes and the new forms on other occasions. It wouldn't be surprising if some people got confused and started using the new "th-" forms instead of singular "h-" forms - an example of hypercorrection, I suppose.
I'll be very interested to read what your academic friend thinks.
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Found in the Town Hall: the "Palmers Scream"
Martin Jenkins
17 Apr 2015 09:30 #1164
- Martin Jenkins
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I received the following e-mail from my good friend Dr Susan Devereux, who is a lecturer in Early Modern History and specialises in witchcraft beliefs and trials of that period:
Obviously, without seeing the documents, I cannot say if they are genuine but I must say that they have the ring of truth. Your area of Middlesex had a reputation as a hotbed of supernatural activity in the Early Modern period. Most famous, of course, is the Witch of Edmonton: the witch in question was Elizabeth Sawyer, executed at Tyburn in 1621.
There are many other records of witchcraft accusations and trials in Middlesex… [I’ve omitted a fairly lengthy list here. MJ]
Most excitingly there is a passing reference to ‘the witches of Wynsmorehyll’ (Winchmore Hill) in an undated chapbook called The Most Wicked Worke of Wretched Witches.
Unfortunately there are no further details given about them. The chapbook is probably late 16th / early 17th Century.
I will do some more research, going through county records, assizes etc. etc. to find out more about your local witches. I’ll keep you posted!
P.S. The ‘charm’ against witches given in the manuscript is fairly elaborate but is not unheard of – off the top of my head I can think of at least three other rituals of a similar nature. It would be interesting to know if there were any other finds on the same site: shoes or ‘witch bottles’ were often built into walls as protection against witches.
Obviously, this is a tantalisingly brief reference but hopefully Dr Devereux will turn up more. It doesn't of course prove that the Town Hall documents are contemporary but it does suggest that there was a local tradition of witchcraft beliefs.
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Found in the Town Hall: the "Palmers Scream"
Karl Brown
02 May 2015 11:15 #1190
- Karl Brown
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Found in the Town Hall: the "Palmers Scream"
Karl Brown
20 Jun 2015 00:27 #1317
- Karl Brown
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I was finally able to talk to Professor Owen Davies, specialist in witchcraft and ghosts, who had apparently been examining the material earlier in the week. He hadn’t seen the pieces for a few days having been away from the office. One rumour was they had been at Walker school late this week but no one was sure. CCTV drew a blank, just going fuzzy before and after the appearance.
A sign we all wondered, but if so, of what? I’ve no idea, nor have Patrick and Diane. For me it was certainly interesting to see what all the recent comment has been about. I took a photo.
I don’t think they have any intention of touching them for a while. Maybe hoping they’ll simply disappear the same way they turned up. Any ideas anyone?
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Found in the Town Hall: the "Palmers Scream"
Alex Woolf
20 Jun 2015 06:34 #1318
- Alex Woolf
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Found in the Town Hall: the "Palmers Scream"
Karl Brown
07 Sep 2015 12:27 #1550
- Karl Brown
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All help needed on this one.
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Found in the Town Hall: the "Palmers Scream"
David March
12 Sep 2015 11:36 #1570
- David March
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