Forum topic: Fox Lane low-traffic neighbourhood

First to be closed off, and unlike the previous planter trial where it was clear within the first hour that they were having no effect on traffic volume or speed, yesterday’s closure of OPR (Fox Lane end) had an immediate impact. It was the silence that was most noticeable, or more specifically the removal of the constant background hum topped with the too-frequent heavy wagon growl or screaming revs from a top-end speeder popping through the gears.
A lot of northbound vehicles missed or ignored the signage and were forced to U turn; something presumably they will not try again as things bed down. But there were also a noticeable number of drivers who instead mounted the pavement to carry on their way, selfishly trashing the concept, and perhaps breaking the law “but in a very specific and limited way” , which now appears to be the way in the UK according to HMG.
Collections of black, green and brown bins were undertaken seamlessly.
Rumours of a fire tender unable to access this street and a high speed police chase, also on OPR, curtailed when the moped rider passed through the barrier were missed by us residents but the posted fantasy probably helped someone get grief off their chest. Ideally the trial will be assessed on submitted evidence rather than such claims. I’ve no doubt input from the emergency services themselves will be firmly in the council’s assessment loop.

Re the crashed car - it’s interesting that rat runners must also operate at 3am in the morning in stolen cars as well as the more regular rush hour periods.

The traffic over the past 48 hours on the arterial roads that remain open has been absurd. Fantastic that our roads are quiet, woo hoo, but the view that we can all walk or cycle everywhere is unrealistic. What about those who are disabled or residents (many of which there are) with small children. Can everyone get everything that they need on foot within PG, I doubt it?

It feels a very insular scheme to only benefit a few. Any environmental argument seems irrelevant as the increase in idling cars on fox lane and Alderman’s hill is probably causing more impact than before.

So back to my original suggestion. What’s the issue with speed bumps and 20 mph speed limit?

If we want PG open and to thrive this does not seem the way to do it.

The North Circular eastbound remains closed from Wilmer Way to Green Lanes after a very serious accident at its junction with Powys Lane. That’s pushing half its 50000+ vehicles per day into PG causing massive congestion on arterial roads.
Work on Fox Lane LTN is expected to be complete in about three weeks after which the impact can be assessed and everyone’s input supplied to the council.
The area in question will be 20mph and those speed humps already in place will remain. It’s worth recalling that the insertion of humps in Fox Lane resulted in an increase in traffic speed. Driver behaviour is clearly a tricky item to predict.

Re #5524
As a cat owner all my life I sympathise with the loss of your cat. I have also lost a cat to a road accident, albeit when I lived in a very quiet road. It can be very painful to lose a pet in this way but it is a risk for all of us who choose to own pets in a city.
With respect to Fox Lane being used as a short cut, the road has been a thoroughfare for more than two hundred years before any houses were ever built on it. Its winding nature is testament to its age and it was the natural route from the early Palmers Green to Old Southgate. So rather than regarding this as a short cut any other route could be regarded as a detour. None of this really helps find a solution to the current situation but bear in mind in creating your oasis of calm you will increase the pollution for those of us who live on the outskirts of your oasis with an overall net increase in pollution as this traffic will be queueing and idling. Queueing traffic produces denser air pollution as the lack of moving traffic means it doesn’t get dispersed.
Can anyone tell me how the result of the trial is going to be adjudicated ? How can we compare figures for traffic, pollution etc. that were taken a year ago with any that are taken now ? Any change in any direction could be due to the consequences of Covid. If there is less traffic is it because more people are now working from home, or not working at all and if there is an increase in traffic could this be due to people avoiding public transport ?

Things have changed a bit in 200 years! If we revert to how things were then, the Lakes Estate apart from Fox Lane itself did not exist, so nobody should be allowed to drive on any of the side roads!
As for extra pollution on the surrounding roads, overwhelming evidence from other LTNs suggests that much of the traffic expelled from the Estate will simply evaporate. It's counter-intuitive, but that seems to be how it works. People start to walk, cycle or get the bus instead. In any case my experience of Bourne Hill and Aldermans Hill is that queueing is relatively unusual, so even if there is a few % rise in traffic on them it probably won't result in much idling - extra fumes from their passage yes, but not from idling.

The issue with speed bumps and 20 mph is that neither is working.

Hi Bill
The point about the age of the road (350 yrs) was to demonstrate that it has always been the route between the original buildings in Palmers Green and Old Southgate and not a short cut through a residential area as Irene had suggested.
When the plots either side of it were sold off for development in 1902, the first plots forming the Old Park Estate (1905-1914) were built up with what was considered at the time “highly condensed” housing. However the builders had the foresight to build wide roads in the expectation of traffic. Compare the width of the Lakes estate roads with those on the Hazelwood side of Green Lanes. The Lakes roads are a whole car width wider which begs the question, if danger to pedestrians and cyclists is the issue, why is the Lakes Estate getting priority of traffic calming over the far more dangerous roads off Hazelwood Lane. These roads are also used as “rat runs” and Hazelwood School is in the middle of it. The Lakes Estate has no schools other than St. Monica’s which is only accessed by vehicle from outside the estate or by walking through from the very quiet Conway Rd.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with restrictions on speed and even night time closure or the introduction of ANPR, cameras or the many other things suggested to slow or restrict traffic. It's just total closure of the whole large network of roads is extreme and just shifts the problem elsewhere.
If the traffic doesn't evaporate and there are queues and congestion in the surrounding roads, will you agree that the trial has failed?

Regarding 'Rat Runners', I don't think anybody would deny that there are drivers who use the roads concerned as short cuts and cut-throughs, but this phenomenon has been exacerbated by road closures, road narrowing and traffic signal phasing elsewhere.
But as a resident in the LTN, am *I* being (mis)identified as a 'Rat Runner' too? How are we deciding who is a 'Rat Runner' and who is a resident simply going about their business in leaving home, and arriving home, in the area? And now that I am no longer able to drive due East after leaving my home, and have to take a wide detour North or South before being able to do so - whilst adding to congestion in being somewhere I didn't want to be - am I not going to be seen as being a 'Rat Runner' in somebody else's area?
I agree that there are a small number of drivers who consistently drive at recklessly high speeds on our local roads, but they are doing something illegal and they should caught and brought to justice. Many of them would face an instant driving ban if properly apprehended with full supporting evidence. A clampdown and regular law enforcement stings on these individuals would have gone a long way to solving that particular problem.